if noise is a problem then watercool it :D

at this point I would point at the X800 ... no, I am NOT an ATi fanboy ... I would switch back to nV if they would offer better cards ...

but what I really wanted to say ... the powerconsumption of the X800 is much less then the 6800 ... yes .. actually its even lower then on 9800
since the power of both cards is nearly the same
I would prefer ati here and I am pretty sure you can just slow down any X800 cooler to 7V to make it quite

would you go for ati even knowing its lack of SM3.0 support?

mmmmh think twice

yes ... without any problem ...
tell me who needs SM3 ?
I mean at that point ... just look at EAX ... how long is EAX3 out ? ... you can count EAX3 game with one hand ..
some with SM3 ...
whooooooo FarCry .. that cause some german freaks sit behind the scene and wanted it at any cost ... but to believe any game maker will now run for SM3 ??? no ... in 1 or 2 years you can think that way but not now or next month
or do you believe nVidia that ATi did not get this technology because they can't get it to work ? ... there simply is no use of it ... it costs money for 1-2 games that use it
poooof effect = zero

may be you are right...
BUT
don't you think doom3, hl2 MAY use sm3.0?
mmmmh

If you really want a nvidia card then get the geforce 6800 GT. Go for www.guru3d.com check out the review.

if its not integrated lately - means now the games will run without
the doom³ engine is something completely different and cannot be compared to other games ... this one does not need to use SM3.0 and if you think of speed up the game ... you need a GF6800 - this game will run without SM3.0 on this card for sure ... since a 9800PRO gives great performance for the game
same with half life 2 ... games will run perfect on actual hardware and games were calculated without the SM3 effects

also .... this technique has also disadvantages! ... it makes things look more and more plastic ... if ya play the doom³ alpha or FarCry you do see what I mean ... it looks good if you are far away but if you come nearer it looks very unrealistic ... if ya got Farcry ... just look a dead bodys or look for the hanging meat in the first house during the mission

the PS or SM needs some improvement to get back on line OR it just needs to be analysed right ... to use the full potential ...

yes ... without any problem ...
tell me who needs SM3 ?
I mean at that point ... just look at EAX ... how long is EAX3 out ? ... you can count EAX3 game with one hand ..
some with SM3 ...
whooooooo FarCry .. that cause some german freaks sit behind the scene and wanted it at any cost ... but to believe any game maker will now run for SM3 ??? no ... in 1 or 2 years you can think that way but not now or next month
or do you believe nVidia that ATi did not get this technology because they can't get it to work ? ... there simply is no use of it ... it costs money for 1-2 games that use it
poooof effect = zero

Actually there are quite a bit of EAX3 games. EAX4 is out now though.. maybe you meant that.

ATI cards seem to run 2.0 shaders just as fast (if not faster) than NV cards running much smaller 3.0 shaders. Just imagine the speed you'd get out of them if you could run 3.0 shaders Is it needed? Not at the moment, no. But you can't argue that SM3 wouldn't be nice to have. Take this from a game programmer- there is plenty of use for it.

BTW- i'm not an ATI or NV fanboy, I'll just go with whoever runs Doom3 and HL2 the fastest without sacraficing quality.

nope I meant EAX3.0 since 4.0 is just a small improvement ... while from 2.0 to 3.0 is a very big improvement if game support it the right way ...
means UT2004 and call of duty
http://eax.creative.com/gaming/gameindex.asp - so much games huh ?
while Soldner has very bad quality overall
and farcry is not even makin 5% use if the EAX3.0 there are games years old ... using EAX2 that sound better then Farcry

may be you are right...
BUT
don't you think doom3, hl2 MAY use sm3.0?
mmmmh

well all SM3 content can run on SM2. so you're not loosing any fanzy graphics feature. it can all run on the x800 - sm3 is just slightly faster.

and doom3 is Opengl, so it wont use any of microsofts Shader models.


SM3 is entirely too overrated. just because they jump a version doesnt mean that it will be packed with new features. we propably wont se those untill directx 10 and longhorn.

imo sm3 should have been named sm2.5

i would still go with 6800 gt :D

i would still go with 6800 gt

your choice
deciding based on SM3.0 alone would just be a bad idea.

nope I meant EAX3.0 since 4.0 is just a small improvement ... while from 2.0 to 3.0 is a very big improvement if game support it the right way ...
means UT2004 and call of duty
http://eax.creative.com/gaming/gameindex.asp - so much games huh ?
while Soldner has very bad quality overall
and farcry is not even makin 5% use if the EAX3.0 there are games years old ... using EAX2 that sound better then Farcry

Few months ago (when I bought Audigy 2, and switched from crappy onboard sound to state-of-art soundcard, and paired it to 5.1 speakers), I begun to hear sounds that were not hearable using onboard sound!

In my oppinion, Americas Army implements best EAX sound - echos and all other effects simply do not exist in onboard sound.

But... while EAX in AA:O is soo good, it is soo poor in some other games
- Colin McRae 4 (where is real sound at back satellites? Programmers could do it way better!).
- FarCry - sound could be better too
- UT2004 - also rear satellites could be a little better (this game is soo fast)


About Americas Army + Audigy 2 + 5.1 speakers + EAX 4 = incredible sound positioning, sound quality & effects!

Example: map Pipeline, I got killed at the bottom of West Ladder (tried to get upside, but enemy was up there - killed me from above with machinegun) - while enemy was shooting at me, bullet shells were falling down the ladder.
Now, since I got killed and my dead body was at the bottom of the ladder, all those bullet shells dropped by me (vertically from above). Each bullet made echo when hitting the concrete (that room is empty and gives a lot of excho).

Another example - I got killed, and was looking a guy from my team, he had 203, he came west entrance, and fired a grenade above (at the CP room), when he reloaded grenade, previous empty grenade shell fell down (and hit concrete), and made such realistic sound, that I though this is real! How I heard this? Beacuse I was dead, I followed a guy from my team, and at that particular moment I followed him from 3rd person, and was looking above - my position was at his feet, that is why i heard that sound. When you normally use 203, and fire grenades, those shells make less noise (beacuse your head is about 1.80 - 1.90 m from the floor, and sound is less hearable).

From all the games I played so far, AA:O made biggest impression at me (not all games have realistic 5.1 sound positioning).

would you go for ati even knowing its lack of SM3.0 support?

mmmmh think twice

Ohhhh now lets see.

Don't you need to upgrade your eyes to see the difference?

your choice
deciding based on SM3.0 alone would just be a bad idea.

Yup, agreed on that, but geforce 6800gt is really a good card. That would be my pick :wink: