i'd pin ATi on the first and nVidia on the last ;P

Only a completely biased idiot would take that stance, but ok.

and the final?

Poor Brian Burke, I imagine he's having himself a rather unpleasant morning. Just picture getting that awful stink of the "optimization" scandel all covered-u...I mean all behind ya and now this. :( What a nasty surprise to have over the morning coffee at work. Poor Brian, I feel for him. I really do. :(

Doubt it. :rolleyes:

dude wtf are you smoking? 8500 is not crap its a damn good card, comaparable to the gf4 ti 4200. And no it was not replaced by the 9000 line right after that was like 1 year later. and if your thinking 9100 or 9200 are any different, they arent, they are basically 8500s with different mem and names btw kyro 2 ran XP fine and played every game great except for one or two with the background showing through the foreground problem, which was fixed in the next drivers.