Old_Fart
Which new graphics card would you purchase and why?
Let's assume for the purposes of discussion that the complete new lines of graphics cards from both ATi and NVidia are already on the store shelves.
I think it's pretty obvious that with the latest offerings from NVidia and ATi, we're all faced with yet another major upgrade expense ($$$), should we choose to make the plunge. Roughly a year after purchasing my 9800 Pro, I'm already contemplating shelling out another BIG chunk of money just to be able to keep up with the technology, but I'm not sure at this point if I'm going to make that leap or not. Why?
Well, for me it's not really an issue of performance. I've volt-modded my 9800 Pro, I'm cooling it with a TEC water block and it's performance is very good as is. I have both the alpha version of Doom III and the leaked version of Half Life 2 and both games play acceptably on my system. No, I can't enable all the bells and whistles and still get good frame rates but I can play and enjoy those games without bringing my system to it's knees.
On other games like Halo, Far Cry and UT2K4 (latest cream of the crop) I can crank up the goodies and everything looks and play extremely well. Not having or played any subsequent versions of HL2 or Doom III, I can only assume that the developers working on those games WILL allow for acceptable game play that DOESN'T require everyone to shell out $500 just to get in on the action, so to speak. And I think that's what it all really boils down to.
When HL2 and Doom III are released, I'd be very surprised if they're not playable on much lesser capable hardware than the newest offerings from ATi and NVidia. I remember reading in one interview with a Doom III developer that they'd been testing the game on a GF4 TI-4600 and that it worked well. So, what does that tell you? It tells me that my current system configuration should be WAY more than enough to play the next generation of games on.
I'm not a loyal fan or customer of either ATi or NVidia (I've owned products from both companies) and I could really care less about the entire debate over "optimized drivers" or any other arguments as to which is better or worse. All I DO care about is graphics performance and what I will gain by purchasing one product over the other. What I see in front of me on the screen is infinitely more important (to me) than what ANY reviewer happens to think. The bottom line is that the money comes out of MY pocket and no one else's.
So, having already seen and played 2 of the next generation crop of games that are about to hit the streets (Doom III and HL2), do I think it's necessary to upgrade my hardware again? Nope. At least not this year. I'd REALLY like to get at least 2 years out of my hardware and 3 years would be ideal (before upgrading). If my 9800 Pro craps out before the end of that 2-year cycle, I WILL be faced with another large purchase though and at this point, I have no idea which way I'll go.
From what I've seen of the reviews so far, the new ATi hardware looks pretty good but the 6800 from NVidia looks just as good (from strictly a performance standpoint). As far as a 1-slot verses 2-slot form factor, I could care less. I think the TEC water block on my 9800 Pro takes up close to 3 slots. Same with power supply requirements (don't care). I've volt-modded my Enermax 650 and have extremely stable +5 and +12 volt rails. Power is NOT an issue for me and I suspect that anyone even considering one of these next-generation video cards is in the same boat. However, with the 100+ watt power consumption for the new NVidia card, it is conceivable that you might see a slight increase in your electric bill. That COULD be a consideration for some people.
So, if form factor, power requirements and cost is NOT a consideration, what is? Driver maturity? I think it's fairly safe to say that these days BOTH companies (ATi & NVidia) are reasonably good at fixing and optimizing their drivers and that it's happening at a MUCH faster pace than in the past. In any case, let's forget about drivers for now and just assume that the cards will function properly (eventually).
What other considerations are there? Well, if you're not water cooling your rig, noise could be an issue. ATi has always made very quiet cards and NVidia has mostly made fairly noisy ones. So, I can see where that could be an issue for people. Noise is why I got into water cooling in the first place but since it would carry over to a new video card anyway, it's not an issue for me. For some though, it could be.
What else is there? Brand loyalty? Not for me. Never has been, never will be. For some though, I suspect it could be or already is. Not being able to relate to that aspect of ownership, I can't really comment on it other than to say that there are zealots on both sides of the camp (whether their "claims" are reasonable or not).
So, if performance is a wash between these products (which I think it basically is at this point), if cost is not an issue (and if it's not, I'm happy for you because for most of us, it is), if the power requirements or consumption (your electric bill) aren't a factor, if driver issues will eventually get ironed out, if noise isn't really that important to you and if, like me, you could care less about brand loyalty, what else is there to consider? What would YOUR final determination on which card to buy be based on? Or, if any of the above factors ARE important to you, here's your chance to voice your opinions and fill us all in on the gory details of WHY you would choose one brand over the other.
Let it rip!
Later.
Let's assume for the purposes of discussion that the complete new lines of graphics cards from both ATi and NVidia are already on the store shelves.
I think it's pretty obvious that with the latest offerings from NVidia and ATi, we're all faced with yet another major upgrade expense ($$$), should we choose to make the plunge. Roughly a year after purchasing my 9800 Pro, I'm already contemplating shelling out another BIG chunk of money just to be able to keep up with the technology, but I'm not sure at this point if I'm going to make that leap or not. Why?
Well, for me it's not really an issue of performance. I've volt-modded my 9800 Pro, I'm cooling it with a TEC water block and it's performance is very good as is. I have both the alpha version of Doom III and the leaked version of Half Life 2 and both games play acceptably on my system. No, I can't enable all the bells and whistles and still get good frame rates but I can play and enjoy those games without bringing my system to it's knees.
On other games like Halo, Far Cry and UT2K4 (latest cream of the crop) I can crank up the goodies and everything looks and play extremely well. Not having or played any subsequent versions of HL2 or Doom III, I can only assume that the developers working on those games WILL allow for acceptable game play that DOESN'T require everyone to shell out $500 just to get in on the action, so to speak. And I think that's what it all really boils down to.
When HL2 and Doom III are released, I'd be very surprised if they're not playable on much lesser capable hardware than the newest offerings from ATi and NVidia. I remember reading in one interview with a Doom III developer that they'd been testing the game on a GF4 TI-4600 and that it worked well. So, what does that tell you? It tells me that my current system configuration should be WAY more than enough to play the next generation of games on.
I'm not a loyal fan or customer of either ATi or NVidia (I've owned products from both companies) and I could really care less about the entire debate over "optimized drivers" or any other arguments as to which is better or worse. All I DO care about is graphics performance and what I will gain by purchasing one product over the other. What I see in front of me on the screen is infinitely more important (to me) than what ANY reviewer happens to think. The bottom line is that the money comes out of MY pocket and no one else's.
So, having already seen and played 2 of the next generation crop of games that are about to hit the streets (Doom III and HL2), do I think it's necessary to upgrade my hardware again? Nope. At least not this year. I'd REALLY like to get at least 2 years out of my hardware and 3 years would be ideal (before upgrading). If my 9800 Pro craps out before the end of that 2-year cycle, I WILL be faced with another large purchase though and at this point, I have no idea which way I'll go.
From what I've seen of the reviews so far, the new ATi hardware looks pretty good but the 6800 from NVidia looks just as good (from strictly a performance standpoint). As far as a 1-slot verses 2-slot form factor, I could care less. I think the TEC water block on my 9800 Pro takes up close to 3 slots. Same with power supply requirements (don't care). I've volt-modded my Enermax 650 and have extremely stable +5 and +12 volt rails. Power is NOT an issue for me and I suspect that anyone even considering one of these next-generation video cards is in the same boat. However, with the 100+ watt power consumption for the new NVidia card, it is conceivable that you might see a slight increase in your electric bill. That COULD be a consideration for some people.
So, if form factor, power requirements and cost is NOT a consideration, what is? Driver maturity? I think it's fairly safe to say that these days BOTH companies (ATi & NVidia) are reasonably good at fixing and optimizing their drivers and that it's happening at a MUCH faster pace than in the past. In any case, let's forget about drivers for now and just assume that the cards will function properly (eventually).
What other considerations are there? Well, if you're not water cooling your rig, noise could be an issue. ATi has always made very quiet cards and NVidia has mostly made fairly noisy ones. So, I can see where that could be an issue for people. Noise is why I got into water cooling in the first place but since it would carry over to a new video card anyway, it's not an issue for me. For some though, it could be.
What else is there? Brand loyalty? Not for me. Never has been, never will be. For some though, I suspect it could be or already is. Not being able to relate to that aspect of ownership, I can't really comment on it other than to say that there are zealots on both sides of the camp (whether their "claims" are reasonable or not).
So, if performance is a wash between these products (which I think it basically is at this point), if cost is not an issue (and if it's not, I'm happy for you because for most of us, it is), if the power requirements or consumption (your electric bill) aren't a factor, if driver issues will eventually get ironed out, if noise isn't really that important to you and if, like me, you could care less about brand loyalty, what else is there to consider? What would YOUR final determination on which card to buy be based on? Or, if any of the above factors ARE important to you, here's your chance to voice your opinions and fill us all in on the gory details of WHY you would choose one brand over the other.
Let it rip!
Later.
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Responses to this topic
glenn
What it comes down is what games do play most of OpenGL or D3D
OpenGL Games Are faster with Nvidia
D3D Games Are a bit faster with ATI
OpenGL Games Are faster with Nvidia
D3D Games Are a bit faster with ATI
KillerKebab
For me, it just comes down to what card I can get for the least money. This 9700 Pro is the most powerful card I've ever used, and I believe I can keep it going for another year (I bought it Easter 2003), if not, I'll probably get the next ATi card, if only because I think calling the drivers "x.x" is better than "xx.xx" and I personally think ATi cards have excellent bang for buck. But that may change, I don't know :)
glenn
Or better yet wait till that New MotherBoard.Cant remember Who is making it,I Think The company is called "Iwill" That has TWO PCI Xpress Slots and u can use two PCI Video Cards One by ATI the Other BY Nvidia.And u can Switch on the Fly,and get the best of both worlds.
weta
Iwill are manufacturing a twin PCI-Express motherboard for Alienware, I haven't seen anything that suggests this board will go on general release. Having said that, if dual PCI-Express proves a commercial success for Alienware, other companies are certain to follow. $1000 for two top end cards, no thanks, $500 is bad enough.
KillerKebab
Think about england where GFX cards like the 6800Ultra will start at 400 quid -> ~750 bucks !
XIII
I would say wait until the PCI Expres and the Athlon 64 939 pins. Then you may purchase your upgrade.
Upgrading now is not worth it because the technology is changing, and very soon new standard will introduce their self.
If you can't hold your breath, then get the Radeon X800 pro, or the Geforce 6800 GT or Ultra. Radeon X800pro is faster at the mean time but do not forget that geforce 6800Gt has PS 3.0, which will enable you to play upcoming game beyond Doom3. PS 3.0 allows programers to write their code in an easier way and no doubt it will be used by game developer. If you get the Radeon X800 then you would not be able to paly the game which require 3.0 or with less image quality.
However this is still depand on the game developer on how fast they are going to implement a game with PS 3.0. because development stages is very complex and requires a long time to complete a game, that makes me think that the PS 3.0 will only be used after a year or so (or may be 3-5 years).
Conclusion, wait for the newer standard or get the Radeon X800 pro / Geforce 6800GT/Ultra. Refer to the links bellow. hopes this will help. Good luck.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/article/98/3/
Upgrading now is not worth it because the technology is changing, and very soon new standard will introduce their self.
If you can't hold your breath, then get the Radeon X800 pro, or the Geforce 6800 GT or Ultra. Radeon X800pro is faster at the mean time but do not forget that geforce 6800Gt has PS 3.0, which will enable you to play upcoming game beyond Doom3. PS 3.0 allows programers to write their code in an easier way and no doubt it will be used by game developer. If you get the Radeon X800 then you would not be able to paly the game which require 3.0 or with less image quality.
However this is still depand on the game developer on how fast they are going to implement a game with PS 3.0. because development stages is very complex and requires a long time to complete a game, that makes me think that the PS 3.0 will only be used after a year or so (or may be 3-5 years).
Conclusion, wait for the newer standard or get the Radeon X800 pro / Geforce 6800GT/Ultra. Refer to the links bellow. hopes this will help. Good luck.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/article/98/3/
KillerKebab
But I thought PS3.0 needed you to upgrade your eyes to see the difference, much like 16bit and 32bit colours
Or even another example, you also need to upgrade your eyes to see any more than 23 frames every second.
Or even another example, you also need to upgrade your eyes to see any more than 23 frames every second.
XIII
PS 3.0 is not totally for beautifying graphic. It is mostly on accelerating the pixel counting. It is a acceleration technique. Because most of game developer doesn't make used of PS 3.0 that is why the Geforce 6800 is slower.
dredlock
i saw the unreal engine demonstration on nv40 and it looked like dog poo
XIII
After a few day thinking of the graphic card war, i think the Geforce 6800 is a better choice because of pixel 3.0. No doubt, nVidia will always make better driver to improve their product performance.
Pixel Shader is very driver depandent, always keep that in mind. Personnally i like the Geforce 6800 GT better.The Radeon X 800 is fast but for me it is much like a strategy for ATI to attract customers for their next card, which have PS 3.0.
Pixel Shader is very driver depandent, always keep that in mind. Personnally i like the Geforce 6800 GT better.The Radeon X 800 is fast but for me it is much like a strategy for ATI to attract customers for their next card, which have PS 3.0.
sT121KER
I would purchase ATI Radeon 9800 pro for Aus $250 because I liked it and its good for gaming as well. I got this graphic card with my new computer and when I benchmarked it in 3D Mark 2001, I got 18, 141 so I think that its pretty good. Now I'm working on overclocking the graphic card so that I could get around or more than 20, 000.
