...as they're actually older than the 6193 set for the most part. I hacked the .inf to get them working on my 8500, and while they're nice & all they ain't faster than the 6193 set in either openGL or D3D. (Although I've been told the 2D module IS newer than the 6193 set, but it causes a lock-up in NWN. I don't have the game, so I couldn't say for sure.) Although I will agree on the "expect new catalysts soon", but that's 'cause I'm just such an optimisitic sonny-*****. ;)